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The Legion still sucks. It really, really sucks.

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darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.11 01:50:00 - [1] i was looking on a ham legion as 2nd t3 cruiser next to my ham tengu. but the dps compared to the tengu was crap. Originally by: Tengu Offensive - Accelerated Ejection Bay Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to kinetic missile damage per level 7.5% bonus to Heavy, Heavy Assault and Assault missile launcher rate of fire per level 10% bonus to heavy missile and heavy assault missile velocity per level Originally by: Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization Subsystem Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to heavy assault missile damage per level 5% bonus to missile launcher rate of fire per level question that raised while thinking about legion fittings why does the tengu sub has 3 bonuses and the legion sub only 2? why is the launcher ROF bonus reduced to 5% compared to the tengus 7.5%? given the tengu already has a range advantage i would bump both bonuses to 7.5 maybe 10% per level. then the legion would be facemelting when it gets into range, while a tengu could kite the legion (both ham fitted) The ham tengu is lots of fun, so i dont really understand why the ham legion comes gimped out of the factory. also for the laser subsystem it seems a bit low on dmg. you can get a ham tengu to like 730 dps with not much lower range than a heavy pulse zealot, but the dmg difference seems to be too big. and the tank with 2-3 heat sinks isnt any spectacular either.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.11 10:41:00 - [2] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Originally by: darius mclever why does the tengu sub has 3 bonuses and the legion sub only 2? why is the launcher ROF bonus reduced to 5% compared to the tengus 7.5%? Why does the legion have damage bonus to all damage types? even when the legion can pick all dmg types. for the lols we use 3 CN BCS + t2 launcher on both setups. missile -> legion -> tengu torrent rage -> 598 dps -> 558 dps terror rage -> 598 dps -> 698 dps now: who would fit 3 BCS on an armor tanked ship? missile -> legion 2 bcs -> legion 1 bcs torrent rage -> 540 dps -> 455 dps so now tell me why the tengu has more range, can fit a nice 1600 dps tank (before implants and boosters). so if you get a decent tank on your legion, your dps is very low compared to the tengu.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.12 06:51:00 - [3] Edited by: darius mclever on 12/01/2010 06:53:31 254k EHP on my probing tengu. 320k EHP with overload. forgot to mention: faction version 326k EHP without overload 445k EHP with overload
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.13 15:49:00 - [4] Edited by: darius mclever on 13/01/2010 15:50:36 Originally by: raukosen [Legion, lowsec] Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Caldari Navy Ballistic Control System Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer Corpum A-Type Medium Armor Repairer True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane True Sansha Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Medium Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I, Navy Cap Booster 800 Republic Fleet Warp Disruptor Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Terror Rage Assault Missile Ammatar Navy Medium Nosferatu Ammatar Navy Medium Nosferatu Medium Ancillary Current Router I Medium Nanobot Accelerator II Medium Nanobot Accelerator II Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector Legion Electronics - Energy Parasitic Complex Legion Engineering - Augmented Capacitor Reservoir Legion Offensive - Assault Optimization Legion Propulsion - Chassis Optimization Good tank, decent damage out dpsed, out ranged and out tanked by tengu. congratulations. and after toying around with it in eft, aux nanopumps wouldnt make you so unstable on cap and still give a decent tank.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.13 16:06:00 - [5] and now do the same math with 7.5% ROF bonus on the legion.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.13 16:25:00 - [6] Originally by: IceAero Originally by: darius mclever and now do the same math with 7.5% ROF bonus on the legion. There's no reason to, that's the identical bonus to the Tengu. And I'll say it again, I do not think that they should have the same bonus. There should be a variety. Caldari focus on Kinetic Missiles, Khanid focus on HAMs and drones. The bonuses should reflect this, I believe. well ROF bonus is pretty much independent of the launcher type. as i said earlier. bumping both bonuses from 5% to 7.5% would make the subsystem good. then the legion would be the close range brawler, while the tengu has slightly less dps but extra range. (disclaimer: i am a happy tengu user and mainly caldari+missile specced)
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.13 16:52:00 - [7] thanks for doing the math! :)
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.13 21:39:00 - [8] Originally by: IceAero Ok if that's settled, I think the pressing issue is the covert subsystem.... If CCP does Nothing else, this must be buffed. The imbalance is staring them in the face! well the other laser subsystem also needs some love think
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.22 12:03:00 - [9] be careful with your wishes please. the total revamp might destroy nice setups on other t3 cruiser. (hides his ham tengu to hope it survives)
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.22 17:41:00 - [10] Originally by: Deva Blackfire Quote: be careful with your wishes please. the total revamp might destroy nice setups on other t3 cruiser. (hides his ham tengu to hope it survives) HAM tengu is nice indeed tho id love to actually fit 2x LSE on 6x HAM one. Unfortunately its crap to fit (grid issues) and will always end up with 150-180k EHP (might be a bit over 200 with CN invuls on overheat but wont even come close to armor tankers ehp in similiar setup). Price to pay for 950dps (kinetic) and good range i guess :X active tanked with 5 launchers for me.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.24 20:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Mr McFail Originally by: MalVortex Your name is the telling point in this post. A properly fit bad ship will kill improperly fit bad players non-shocker. Oh please, get of your high horse - the legion is fine... Not my fault you SUCK at fitting it. maybe you can share your wisdom?
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.01.24 22:13:00 - [12] Originally by: Mr McFail That's easy. I don't expect all ships of a type and class to perform exactly the same as each other, each t3 ship has a role that it is better at than the others, the legion isn't a gank ship - it's better suited for support. did you see the discussion on the missile subsystems for tengu and legion? the legion subsystem which has more disadvantages than the tengu, already comes with pre-nerfed bonuses. how is that good game design?
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.02.01 00:54:00 - [13] Edited by: darius mclever on 01/02/2010 00:54:07 you only get 740dps out of a faction/deadspace tank? wow! a tengu gets easily 1600-3000 dps tank with the same. and please post your fit :D
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.02.01 11:41:00 - [14] Originally by: Marlona Sky DAMN THE GODS FOR NOT MAKING AMARR THE BEST IN EVERY SHIP CATEGORY!!! we dont want to. tengu will always be the best! we just want to make it's gap closer to put the loki more into shame. :)
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.02.01 17:06:00 - [15] Originally by: Mr McFail Cry some more, please learn how to fly the Legion before you go into a hissy fit. so you want to share your fit or is it too much of a secret?
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.02.01 17:27:00 - [16] Edited by: darius mclever on 01/02/2010 17:27:20 Originally by: Mr McFail Edited by: Mr McFail on 01/02/2010 17:17:41 Originally by: darius mclever Originally by: Mr McFail Cry some more, please learn how to fly the Legion before you go into a hissy fit. so you want to share your fit or is it too much of a secret? http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/4090/legionnewsetup1.jpg And for a cruiser class ship, I find that DPS more than acceptable, I don't expect a cruiser class ship to be throwing around much more dps than a higher class ship such as a battlecruiser even if it is t3. Oh and it's still capable of tanking over 650DPS with t1 rigs and the plex repper or over 600dps with t2 rigs and a standard t2 med repper, finally you can swap 2 of those lazy EANM's for hardeners to get a boost to the resists you need, it's still cap stable doing it. and we welcome Mr. Heavy Neut.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.02.01 19:04:00 - [17] Originally by: Deva Blackfire I like how that PVP setup has no scrambler/disruptor and no MWD. Totally awesome setup Well AB isnt that bad with T3. you get still decent speed and can use your sigradius for tanking. i would say viable for lowsec and highsec. especially you can scare away all those arazu/lachesis who think "i scram you and your mwd is f*cked" :) missing point and cap booster is worse imho.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.02.09 17:09:00 - [18] oh hi, this is amusing after weeks of constructive discussion we get kicked out of test server feedback :)

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